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Old Feb 29, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yichi
Assassins, like most other "rouge" classes, add nothing but degenerative gameplay. I will take a common class from a game that I used to play, the Stealther from Dark Age of Camelot.

Like the assassin it had huge imbalances, one being that you could be cloaked and only another stealther could see you until you attacked, which made jumping random leveling noobs fun, but added a huge amount of griefers in the game that would camp certian areas and kill any lone one or two players that came through. If you weren't traveling in packs of 4-5, a stealther that was worth a shit ate you for lunch.

similarly, the assassin's shadowstepping allows for pretty much that. Its an instant occurance to your target and can usually be fatal for the lone character/npc/whatever that isn't prepared for it. Without basically dedicating an entire character in an 8 man party to be on assassin patrol, they have free reign to do pretty much whatever they want too and get away with it onyl because if it gets too hectic, then oops teleport out and overadvantage the stand team.

They provide no real utility other than 3,2,1 gimmicks, no real skillful gameplay, no tactics other than run the opposite of where everyone else is running, and no real knowledge from the player. If the player can run around in circles long enough, that player will eventually accomplish something on this class, wether it be a free npc kill, a free player kill, or either. It threw all tactical play out the window and any movement control such as snares, conditions such as cripple, etc. can be easily negated that they may not even be brought into the fight.

When I first heard of an assassin, I immediately thought of the diablo 2 assassin thats kind of balanced (until certain runewords screwed that up). This class has utility, can shadowstep but only in the form of attacks, can melee and be an effective caster, and has immunities against it to keep it in check, same with every other character except the hammerdin, but this aint d2, so enough of that shit. Sadly, the assassin we got was completely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up in comparison.

The assassin in Guildwars fails due to its lack of direction. Its not ment as a mobile skirmisher due to its low armor and the fact that it throws movement out the window. Its not a pressure class because it doesn't rely on pressure, it relies on more spike damage in the form of attack chains. Its not a caster, because it doesnt have the weapons/items/energy pool/regen to be an effective caster not to mention that the caster skills it has blow nuts. It's not ment to be a team build due to the fact of the class relying on its ability to dash in to something kill it and dash out.

So where does this leave the class in any state other than the 12 year old "I want to be a ninja" or the "I'm a naruto nerd" category? What has the assassin brought to the table other than griefer builds (shadowform), spike builds and instagibs (shadow prison, etc.), or an outnumber build that doesn't have to worry about things collapsing to attack it that instantly puts it out of danger and the opposing team at an instant advantage (Aura of Displacement)?

Name me one good thing the assassin has brought to the table that has helped in a team play oriented game that has benefited the game and I will take back everything I have said and welcome assassins in GW2. But sadly, I think you'd have a much easier time milking a cat.
this is so true it's not funny.

i hope that sins are given some depth in gw2 or else i might just play para

i actually hope sins in gw2 are more like rouges in WoW because ther much cooler ^_^

Last edited by RavagerOfDreams; Feb 29, 2008 at 11:40 PM // 23:40..
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Old Mar 01, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33   #22
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Hmm.. the whole thread has become a flame-fest against the sin. While i agree that the concept is pretty much ruined in GW i still dont think it should be REMOVED but ALTERED for GW2
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Old Mar 04, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41   #23
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GW2 needs ALL prev. Characters, includint Assassins too.They are great warriors, if you CAN play with them.
Otherwise they are only free targets.

Metroid, you're right!
But the Armors..yes...I think the BEST idea is make a LOT Armor, make some light, mid-strong, and "Heavy" armor 4 them.
And the best Assassin armor is the New Goblin's in Spiderman 3, watch him!
(Google search, Guys!)

Some of you guys crying becouse they are easy targets for an assassin, and they cant survive a sin...Cheers!
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26   #24
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Asassins in GW2 ? Well thats just crazy talk!
Hey, hmmm, whats this i see?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ash_Legion

OMG, they will be in gw2?! nooooo
lol
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
Added skills, If you don't like something about it for a reason other that "its an assassin," then feel free to post. I personally like playing the high risk light tank type class, thats why I hardly ever PvP, you cant use Death Blossom Farmer there XD I've tried every other class, but always stick with my assassin. No other class gives me the same satisfaction of completing something with an assassin. Personally, I wont be playing GW2 very long if the assassin or something comparable isn't available.
I honestly love my assassin. In fact it's my main character for PvE. But unfortunately they're rather hit or miss for PvP. They're either in style or not. There's not much of another option. It IS an unbalanced class.

Don't get me wrong, I like your idea FlamingMetriod, you've brought some interesting things into play. Some of your suggestions are overpowered, but it could be scaled down to actually allow balance. Disabling skills after using a L, D, F could be a really serious step in the right direction. I'd love to see a BALANCED assassin in GW2.

Unfortunately I think you're banking on the fact GW2 will be much like GW, where as I don't think that will be the case.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musei Karasu
I honestly love my assassin. In fact it's my main character for PvE. But unfortunately they're rather hit or miss for PvP. They're either in style or not. There's not much of another option. It IS an unbalanced class.

Don't get me wrong, I like your idea FlamingMetriod, you've brought some interesting things into play. Some of your suggestions are overpowered, but it could be scaled down to actually allow balance. Disabling skills after using a L, D, F could be a really serious step in the right direction. I'd love to see a BALANCED assassin in GW2.

Unfortunately I think you're banking on the fact GW2 will be much like GW, where as I don't think that will be the case.
I'm not, thats why I didn't totally toss out spiking.

GW2 will be a solo game as well as a team game, so the whole "GW is a team game" stance will go out the window for the most part in GW2

I use current GW attributes because I don't know how the GW2 attributes will work and neither does anyone else
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid
I use current GW attributes because I don't know how the GW2 attributes will work and neither does anyone else
Guess that works, I just took it the wrong way then. My appologies.

Oh and a great image BTW, but that's not an assassin, it's a ninja (which I tend to dislike). Personally I'd like to see the assassin be an ASSASSIN not a ninja, but you get brownie points because it's a cool pic anyway.
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22   #28
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yea i've always wanted a armor like the guy in sins creed wears

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Old Mar 05, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31   #29
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Personally I wouldn't mind either, but I like ninjas a bit better
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38   #30
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Hmm, why not just make one set ninja-looking, and other set "our current Asassin looking"?

Or for GW2, one race (maybe charr or somthing) become asassins, Sylvari maybe become hitmen, humans become ninja, and asura become pathetic little guys in masks .
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09   #31
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Yichi, I doubt anyone will care if you don't get gw2 because assassins are in it. Also, don't have the profession because people are too idiotic to play it. As for you, Stormlord Alex, your arguement seems complete nonsense to me. First you say its overpwoered, then you say there are counters, then you agree with someone who says that sins suck because people don't get it that they are not tanks, after that I just stopped reading because it was pissing me off. If you hate 'sins, whatever, they are not anymore overpowered then monks or any other profession, all professions are equally balanced, so I don't get how you get that 'sins are overpowered, especially when you say monks are not. I'd love to continue an arguement, I am sure you will call me stupid like you did about those who don't get what your saying, but I will say now, I am not stupid and I can understand a lot of crazy stuff, so if you want to try t oget me to understand where you are coming form on this, please tell me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musei Karasu
Oh and a great image BTW, but that's not an assassin, it's a ninja (which I tend to dislike). Personally I'd like to see the assassin be an ASSASSIN not a ninja, but you get brownie points because it's a cool pic anyway.
I agree with that 'sins should be actual 'sins, not a ninja. I like ninja, but I'd rather have a class look like a ninja and CALLED a ninja. 'sin armor should look a lot me like the guy in Assassin's Creed, thats for sure, maybe we can get a Ninja profession and an Assassin profession in gw2? that would be nice .

Anyways, I like most of your ideas on the 'sin for GW2, but I think adding all that stuff WILL make it overpowering, unless you add just as much tuff to other professions, or take away things from the 'sin. One thing I can say I dislike, is the adding of the short sword, instead of that, how about adding either gauntlets/katars or adding shirokens and throwing knives and calling it a Ninja.

Edit: Just noticed, Stormlord Alex, your profession on your avatar is labeled Assassin/Monk...and yet you hate 'sins? Tell me how that makes any sense??

Last edited by Konig Des Todes; Mar 05, 2008 at 10:27 PM // 22:27..
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Old Mar 05, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
I agree with that 'sins should be actual 'sins, not a ninja. I like ninja, but I'd rather have a class look like a ninja and CALLED a ninja. 'sin armor should look a lot me like the guy in Assassin's Creed, thats for sure, maybe we can get a Ninja profession and an Assassin profession in gw2? that would be nice .
That would be really ridiculously idiotic, if anet would do this, because Ninjas are only a cultural origin of the Assassin.
Ninjas are nothing else, then Assassins, only with a different Name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja

Ninjas in the old Japan worked extremely often as Head Hunters for their Lords to kill for them people that stood in their way to become mightier. The Name Assassin again comes from an other culture, the culture of the old Persia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin


The perfect Assassin for GW2 would be also something, that perfectly combines both cultures into 1 Profession, that includes both assassination styles.

The Persian Style relies extreme on fighting with Katars, because the Katar is the original Melee Weapon for Asassins and combining their Weapon Skills with deadly Poisons and Nerve Poisons which should cause either paralyzing effects or hallucinations to confuse their victims before they assassin will land the deadly hit.

The Asian Style relies extreme on Martial Arts, Stealth and Throwing Weapons like Shurikens and Kunais (Throwing Stars and Throwing Daggers). Their fight style is much more a hybrid between melee techniques and semi ranged techniques. Their Style is called Ninjutsu. the Asian version of Assassins, the Ninjas are also said to have an own kind of traditional way of using Magic.

While Non-Assassin Magic users have to use Magic Spells to cast their Skills, asian Assassins (Ninjas) are said to be trained in the ability to cast Magic without speaking the magical Spell for them, they use a combination of quick Finger Signs and concentrate their magical energy into them, to cast their Skills without speaking. That has the advantage, that their enemies won't be able, to hear the spell and when you won't hear them, you can't know what kind of magic someone uses.

Sure, all will whine now again like ever about Naruto, but this anime has its good relations about the Ninja Culture, I also don't say, that assassins in GW2 should become Naruto-Clones (simple because they would have then nothing from their persian culture part, which they should have)

I say only, a mix between Naruto, Assassin's Creed,GW1, RO1's Assassins and the upcoming gameplay of EVAN onlines Rogues will make together a perfect Assassin Profession for GW2, because then they would have absolutely everything, people expect from this Class:

- Equipable Melee Weapon > Katars (Persian)
- Equipable Ranged Weapons: Shurikens and Kunais (Asian)
- Equipable Hybrid Weapon: Fuuma Shurikens *large Shurikens, which can be thrown away and will come back like Boomerangs and can be used also due to their size as melee weapon* Fuuma = japanese > Wind Spirit
- Masters of all sorts of Poisons (Persian/RO)
- Masters of Stealth (Asian/EVAN)
- Masters of Ninjutsu (Asian/Naruto) *Finger Sign Magic*
- Clothes (Armors) of both Cultures, either being masked or weiring hoods (Persian/Asian-Assassins Creed/GW)
-------

All together = Perfect Hybrid between Asian and Persian Culture

Last edited by Phoenix Tears; Mar 06, 2008 at 06:07 PM // 18:07..
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44   #33
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Well rather than making things complicated...
1) There will be Different Races.
2) There's a good chance, that their armor will not all look the same for each race (of asassin)

1) + 2) = Different race, different style of armour.

We currently have Norn armor, Asuran Armor, and monument armour. Each race = different armour styles (art).

Why would A-net ruin the lore by giving every race the same armour?

So , what I'm getting at is... Your charr may get a persian style asassin, your humans may keep the current look, sylvari may take on a ninja look, who knows... There are almost endless possibilities as to how armour will be designed.

BTW: Asassins creed armour looks liek some kind of Ranger-Asassin hybrid... The long suit coat , rather than the tight suit current asassins use.

Idea #2:

IF there is a Canthan Expansion, ninja-armour would most likely be implemented there.

Last edited by kerpall; Mar 06, 2008 at 12:46 AM // 00:46..
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03   #34
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If they make assassins in gw2 and make it look like ur drawing i would definitly buy it!!!!!! (That sin is absolute PWNAGE)
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13   #35
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Originally Posted by Voltaic Annihilator
If they make assassins in gw2 and make it look like ur drawing i would definitly buy it!!!!!! (That sin is absolute PWNAGE)
thats actually factions concept art
I'm surprised more people didn't recognize it
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xDusT II
Have you actually ever played a GvG against a sin split. Do you even know how much some of the counters you listed will fail tremendously?

Guardian - Rigor Mortis
Insidious Parasite - 2s Cast, Hex
Spiteful Spirit - 2c Cast, Hex
Blackout - Good luck, siphon speed.
Cry of Frustration - lol?
Diversion - It's a counter I guess, if you want to split off your mesmer.
Empathy- Hex
Clumsiness/Ineptitude - Sinept them back?
Ethereal Burden - Shadow steps, hex
Every other hex you mentioned - hex
Shield Bash / Tenai's Wind - Doesn't stop NPC ganking.
bold ones work

most sin splits don't bring a necro with rigor mortis- i have no idea why you said that its just silly
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin
Edit: Just noticed, Stormlord Alex, your profession on your avatar is labeled Assassin/Monk...and yet you hate 'sins? Tell me how that makes any sense??
I play Assassin.
I'm not a blind Assassin fanboi. There's a difference.
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I'm not a blind Assassin fanboi. There's a difference.
Quoted for epic truth
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Assassins are a lame, one dimensional class

I play Assassin.
just run me through how that works again please? you think they're rubbish, but you play one anyway?

anyway, back to the point of the thread.
i quite like your ideas about the 'sin, but im not so sure about the whole "10% chance to crit" on daggers, and im still a bit confused as to what the difference between combat and assassination is...
also, practically all of the skills are way to powerful.
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Old Mar 06, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35   #40
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edit: actually, doesn't matter
People fail at reading too much to understand

Last edited by Stormlord Alex; Mar 06, 2008 at 06:52 PM // 18:52..
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